Opinions on Selling UTAU-related Stuff?

[Terindie]

Lately, I've been thinking about the recent innovations of UTAU and how, in many cases, the program itself has been able to surpass VOCALOID standards.
I mean, heck, look at V3 Luka's "multiple sound" announcement, which is basically just multipitch, which we've been doing for years now.

And we do everything for free! With the exception of Macne Nana and similar, everything is paid for only in time, dedication, and a huge knowledge of a really cool pioneer software. That knowledge is an art, really.

With that, is it immoral to try and make money off of it? In art communities, it's unfortunately way too common for people to be taught, over and over, that their works and creations aren't worth much money or any payment at all (just look at the going rates for commissions on deviantART , that ripoff point system), and I think part of that leads to frustration of UTAU users, who slave over recordings and OTOs to have no one use their voicebank, or be recognized. While that shouldn't be the endgame at all (after all, we don't want to be a competitive community), it's nice to get feedback and recognition for produced art, but the only way it can be expressed in this fandom is through comments, likes, uses of voicebanks.

What if UTAU users began to sell little things along with their covers and such? Just trinkets, maybe, and of course, only UTAU of your own creation. Do you like this voicebank? Would you like to buy a button of her? Maybe a sticker? A high-quality version of this original song?

As a sturdy alternative to VOCALOID, is UTAU something that we can monetize with good conscience? Or is the freeness something essential to UTAU fandom values? I'm curious about what people think.

 

[Zarsla]

@Terindie
People sell UTAU voicebanks. People also sell oto.ini and mmd models and pv creation, but this is usually done as a swap. Eg you pay $1.00 for an oto.ini.

Now to answer whether or not we should sell things in UTAU, you can do that but know that you will be making UTAU more exclusive, not necessarily more well known.

 

[Kiyoteru]

I never actually thought about the "selling little trinkets" thing. It would be adorable to be able to buy a keychain of your favorite UTAU! As for other things...

UTAU can already be used commercially for music itself, I've seen more than a few albums that featured UTAU vocals on them (but was unable to buy them, since I'm broke//

There's already a such thing as UTAU related commissions, so it's not exactly selling something but there's still money involved.

Also, EmpathP is selling a physical box edition of Namida's voicebank on the BandCamp page for Fairytale Blue.

I'd say that it's perfectly fine to try and make money where you can, but going overboard is unfair. (ex. paying to learn utau)

 

[Chorvaqueen]

I don't know why there's a stigma when it comes to selling utau-related things (including the actual VB ) but no one seems to bat an eyelash when it comes to, say, win100% UTAU's. If there's a demand, why not?

 

[MystSaphyr]

I don't see any problem with wanting to profit off your work. The UTAU engine is free, but there's nothing that says the voicebanks have to be. And I ESPECIALLY see nothing wrong with making cute little trinkets to sell of your own UTAUs.

Keeping that in mind though, this thread reminds me of the battle I've been going through to put something in my UTAU terms of use that distinguishes between doujin and commercial works.

Plenty of UTAUs have been featured in small-print productions in Japan at events like Minna no UTAU and Comiket, but that's possible because a lot of Japanese UTAUs allow "doujin works" in their terms of service, distinguishing it from "commercial". Overseas, that line becomes a little blurred.

For instance, if you wanna make 50 copies of a collaboration album with Teto to sell at MinUTA, go ahead. If you wanna post said Teto album on iTunes however, you'd better contact Twindrill.

Overseas, I bet some people would probably be outright (and understandably) angry if they found out art of their UTAU design was being sold at a con artist alley without their permission or credit, and I think that's mainly because artist alleys have a different atmosphere/goal than Japanese doujin events; doujin productions are made for fun and recognition, not for income. I've literally known artists at artist alleys to draw characters from series they've never even watched because they know they'll sell (not that I think that'd happen with UTAU in particular, but you never know)

Any thoughts on this? Doujin vs commercial?

 

[Wii Fit Trainer]

I think that'd be really cute. Little merchandise of these Utaus would be adorable and such, and hey, even though they're being sold for those particular Utaus, you can often find people who think that a keychain or sticker of that Utau is super cute or something and they'll buy (I went through a phase where I bought a bunch of Pokemon dolls and some were the new ones which I didn't even know the name of but thought it was cute). I think this might even be a good way to kinda get the word out??? (Not sure I just like the idea)(Being able to monetize Utau could be very possible but I have no real idea how the path would be)

 

[Aline]

Well, I'll be brutally honest here, so, pardon me if i end up offending anyone.

Selling UTAU-based goods is a bit of a complex area, really. There are things you can sell, things you can't sell, and things that could be sold, but selling them might be kinda pointless, considering the very nature of the program. Also, you'll have to be really good at what you do, to be able to sell your stuff, not to mention that UTAU fandom is relatively small, don't think you'll make a living out of it.

Things that CANNOT be sold:
- The software itself. Ameya expressed it in the terms of use, it's the biggest no-no you can do.
- Someone else's work, without prior permission. This includes charging to make USTs and off-vocals of songs made by other people. You're basically using other people's stuff to profit, and we all can see why this isn't okay.
- Other UTAU voicebanks/goodies, without their permission. This means that even if you made an original song with, let's say, Kikyuune Aiko, you can't sell it before Myst grants you permission to do so. This also goes for doujins, keyrings, dolls, and the like. Check the terms of use of each character. If the commercial use is strictly forbidden, just give up.

Things that CAN be sold:
- oto.ini configuration. It's basically your work that's being poured here, and if you want to charge for it, it's perfectly fine. But friendly reminder: you need to be around CZ's level of good at otoing or you won't really get any money with your work.
- UST/UST tuning for original songs. Self-explainable. If someone made an original song and they're terrible at using UTAU, they can pay you to make the tuning. Again, you need to be really good at you do to sell your fish. Putting a thousand random pitchbends and then forgetting to use BRE0/MOD0 doesn't make you a master at tuning.
- Fanarts/doujins/goodies of your own UTAUs, or of other UTAUs, with permission. Commissions also work here. If the owner allowed/is paying you to make art of their utus, go ahead! It's not forbidden. If you want to make a garage kit of, for example, Kanochi Neko and Sango gave you permission, by all means, go ahead! Just don't make a Kanochi Sader or you'll be the target of ridicule all over the internet.
- Designs for other people's UTAUs. Listen, not everyone is born an artist. And by that, I mean some people can't even draw stick figures. If you're good at drawing/designing and want to charge for it, go ahead. Now, people are fully allowed to ask you for a refund if you give them a badly done Miku recolor.
- Voicebanks/appends of your own UTAUs. It's actually a bit pointless, since there are many other good ones out there for free, but if you want to sell your stuff, go ahead. Just don't complain that nobody's buying it when the final result actually sounds like an inferior version of an already existent FREE voicebank.

If I forgot something, welp, I'm just a human. But the bottom line is: ask for permission, be good at what you're doing, don't sell the program itself.

 

[Terindie]

I like the discussion here, and it seems like there's a general agreement among those who have commented so far; selling your own UTAU things is fine (and appears to be seen in a positive light), your own voicebanks as well (but unless you have something outstanding, it probably won't compete with the thousands of free ones), doing commissions is of course okay and already in practice, and anything outside your dominion (such as other UTAU) is a no-no without permission.

In response to @MystSaphyr 's question about doujin works, I think that's hard to differentiate in the west, since doujin isn't really a concept we have over here. I think if that question were to be addressed at all first we'd need a general concensus in the UTAU community on what constitutes doujin versus commercial use.

 

[Lorreine Geralde]

Well, I'll be brutally honest here, so, pardon me if i end up offending anyone.

Selling UTAU-based goods is a bit of a complex area, really. There are things you can sell, things you can't sell, and things that could be sold, but selling them might be kinda pointless, considering the very nature of the program. Also, you'll have to be really good at what you do, to be able to sell your stuff, not to mention that UTAU fandom is relatively small, don't think you'll make a living out of it.

Things that CANNOT be sold:
- The software itself. Ameya expressed it in the terms of use, it's the biggest no-no you can do.
- Someone else's work, without prior permission. This includes charging to make USTs and off-vocals of songs made by other people. You're basically using other people's stuff to profit, and we all can see why this isn't okay.
- Other UTAU voicebanks/goodies, without their permission. This means that even if you made an original song with, let's say, Kikyuune Aiko, you can't sell it before Myst grants you permission to do so. This also goes for doujins, keyrings, dolls, and the like. Check the terms of use of each character. If the commercial use is strictly forbidden, just give up.

Things that CAN be sold:
- oto.ini configuration. It's basically your work that's being poured here, and if you want to charge for it, it's perfectly fine. But friendly reminder: you need to be around CZ's level of good at otoing or you won't really get any money with your work.
- UST/UST tuning for original songs. Self-explainable. If someone made an original song and they're terrible at using UTAU, they can pay you to make the tuning. Again, you need to be really good at you do to sell your fish. Putting a thousand random pitchbends and then forgetting to use BRE0/MOD0 doesn't make you a master at tuning.
- Fanarts/doujins/goodies of your own UTAU, or of other UTAU, with permission. Commissions also work here. If the owner allowed/is paying you to make art of their utus, go ahead! It's not forbidden. If you want to make a garage kit of, for example, Kanochi Neko and Sango gave you permission, by all means, go ahead! Just don't make a Kanochi Sader or you'll be the target of ridicule all over the internet.
- Designs for other people's UTAU. Listen, not everyone is born an artist. And by that, I mean some people can't even draw stick figures. If you're good at drawing/designing and want to charge for it, go ahead. Now, people are fully allowed to ask you for a refund if you give them a badly done Miku recolor.
- Voicebanks/appends of your own UTAU. It's actually a bit pointless, since there are many other good ones out there for free, but if you want to sell your stuff, go ahead. Just don't complain that nobody's buying it when the final result actually sounds like an inferior version of an already existent FREE voicebank.

If I forgot something, welp, I'm just a human. But the bottom line is: ask for permission, be good at what you're doing, don't sell the program itself.

I think original songs created using UTAU can be sold too. I have seen someone offers commission for UTAU original song.

 

[Kiyoteru]

Yeah, and the songs themselves with permission from the VB makers. (I feel like it would be more convenient if I could ask permission once and be granted the ability of commercial usage from then on, instead of asking once per song like a paranoid producer)

 

[XJM]

Couldn't hurt to give it a go if you're serious about it. Just be careful about your costs. The game changes a little bit when you introduce money. Personally... I see selling UTAU-related stuff, along with the actual voices/voicebanks, as a way of giving it value. You tend to value things more when you have to pay for them. Like a cup of coffee from Starbucks

 

[oteto]

I'm of the opinion that commercialization dirties things. That being said, UTAU merch is something I definately would want. As for comissions, they are fine and dandy but if one uses them one is missing an opportunity to develop skills, and explore their own way of doing things, which can cause stagnation of the evolution of UTAU music. Just my opinion. If the same couple/few people did all the art tuning etc, UTAU would lose its diversity and start to resemble vocaloid a little too much

 

[Wii Fit Trainer]

I'm of the opinion that commercialization dirties things. That being said, UTAU merch is something I definately would want. As for comissions, they are fine and dandy but if one uses them one is missing an opportunity to develop skills, and explore their own way of doing things, which can cause stagnation of the evolution of UTAU music. Just my opinion. If the same couple/few people did all the art tuning etc, UTAU would lose its diversity and start to resemble vocaloid a little too much

I honestly think this would get some people more eager to do it themselves though, seeing some people make money off of stuff like tuning and stuff could get people thinking, "Maybe I could do that one day" and they'll practice over and over.

I've actually seen some people do stuff like that for awhile now (oto's, tuning, mixing, commissions of sorts) but I actually have no idea how successful it is/I don't know what the values would be like.

 

[Terindie]

I have a question regarding this. I was recently told that it was illegal to sell songs or anything based off selling songs made with utau is that true?

Well, UTAU is just a music tool. You're allowed to sell your music with it... just make sure you check the individual UTAU's terms of use. Some people don't allow their productions being used commercially, others require pay percentages, etc, others just want credit. UTAU the program is permitted for commercial use though!

 

[Diongoespew!]

Well, UTAU is just a music tool. You're allowed to sell your music with it... just make sure you check the individual UTAU's terms of use. Some people don't allow their productions being used commercially, others require pay percentages, etc, others just want credit. UTAU the program is permitted for commercial use though!

oh okay great thanks!

 

[chunter]

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. My experience and education regards IP law in USA.

Once a voicebank is made available for public use, selling a recorded song that uses it is as free as playing any other musical instrument. The reason is because the musical content only concerns the samples in the voicebank. This regards the copyright on a sound recording.

The rub is that using the voice in the recording is not the same as using the character's name in a title or a visual likeness, which have both printed copyright and trademark scope.

Most of you understand that it is okay to put a price tag on anything that is your original creation. Personally, I find the moment I put a price tag on my music, people stop being interested in it, but it's not a total loss and it's not like that for everyone.

In the US, with regard to the copyright on a musical composition, the composer has the right of first release, that is, to determine who is allowed to share the first recording of your song with the world, and yes, putting your song demo on SoundCloud satisfies this. After the first release, the compulsory license clause grants anyone the right to sell a recording or a cover version of your song as long as the composer is paid the statutory royalty rate. Like the fair use clause, I am of the impression that most countries do NOT follow this doctrine. This also only regards a song used in sound recordings, when using the music with video or in a video game, it is handled through a sync license which the composer will always control.
The compulsory license does not allow use of the contents of the recording, it assumes you are making all of the composition's sounds again from scratch. Using the same recording of music as before is considered a sample, which is a license to the sound recording, but not the composition of the song.

If you didn't understand why it took forever for Project Diva to go around the world, you probably do now, because Sega needed permission to:

• The recordings of many songs
• License to the compositions too
• A license to the visual likeness of the characters
• A license to the trademark of the charters' names
• In some cases, license to the performing artist and composer's names too
• all licenses with no time limit so the game can stay on the shelf in a store forever
• and repeat with respects to laws of all of the countries where the game is sold
• probably something else I'm forgetting too

Because all of these rights have a relationship, it is easy to mix them up.

 

[Diongoespew!]

Good to know thanks

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. My experience and education regards IF law in USA.

Once a voicebank is made available for public use, selling a recorded song that uses it is as free as playing any other musical instrument. The reason is because the musical content only concerns the samples in the voicebank. This regards the copyright on a sound recording.

The rub is that using the voice in the recording is not the same as using the character's name in a title or a visual likeness, which have both printed copyright and trademark scope.

Most of you understand that it is okay to put a price tag on anything that is your original creation. Personally, I find the moment I put a price tag on my music, people stop being interested in it, but it's not a total loss and it's not like that for everyone.

In the US, with regard to the copyright on a musical composition, the composer has the right of first release, that is, to determine who is allowed to share the first recording of your song with the world, and yes, putting your song demo on SoundCloud satisfies this. After the first release, the compulsory license clause grants anyone the right to sell a recording or a cover version of your song as long as the composer is paid the statutory royalty rate. Like the fair use clause, I am of the impression that most countries do NOT follow this doctrine. This also only regards a song used in sound recordings, when using the music with video or in a video game, it is handled through a sync license which the composer will always control.
The compulsory license does not allow use of the contents of the recording, it assumes you are making all of the composition's sounds again from scratch. Using the same recording of music as before is considered a sample, which is a license to the sound recording, but not the composition of the song.

If you didn't understand why it took forever for Project Diva to go around the world, you probably do now, because Sega needed permission to:

• The recordings of many songs
• License to the compositions too
• A license to the visual likeness of the characters
• A license to the trademark of the charters' names
• In some cases, license to the performing artist and composer's names too
• all licenses with no time limit so the game can stay on the shelf in a store forever
• and repeat with respects to laws of all of the countries where the game is sold
• probably something else I'm forgetting too

Because all of these rights have a relationship, it is easy to mix them up.

 

[Crystalline]

I think I prefer the merchandise of an Utau, but it may be difficult since people do not want them to be used for commercial use.

I can understand that since I would be hesitant in selling anything about my Utau.

Our Utau we made are like our children.

And then there are the people who might think Utau is a ripoff of Vocaloid.
I'm just saying there might.

 

[Arissa]

I've seen people make merchandise of their utau, selling things like albums, little trinkets, t-shirts with their utau on them, boxart, etc. I think Studio Ogien does this ^^

Anyway, it always kind of confused me how one would try to make money off their utau, but I don't really mind. I don't think I'd want to try making my voicebanks cost money, since I know that not everyone has money, and doing this might make me seem conceited or something like that to some people. I personally think that utau should be free for people to download. There are many high-quality voicebanks available that are quite popular and free of charge. For example, Gahata Meiji is free and is just as good as Windows 100% utau that cost money.

I have yet to see any utau doujin, but I think something like that should be allowed, so long as it doesn't violate an utau creator's rules, like no r-18 if they don't want that or something of the sort. I think that can make an utau's popularity increase, to have a doujin made with them. It's like having fanart, but people might like a doujin more depending on the person.

As for other things, I can see selling things for commission, like maybe a UST, character designs, artwork, etc, so long as it's reasonable pricing and quality.

 

[partial]

Personally.

Spoiler

I absolutely adore physical copies of UTAU banks! I would love to have more than just the UTAU characters from Studio Ogien. There's a high chance I will buy a bank if it has a physical version (and it gets even higher if English compatible)! I really love the idea of physical albums and trinkets and shirts too, sign me up for that shit yo