How to make a good VCV voicebank?

Cupcake

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So i've been doing CV for a while and thinking to try VCV after i've learned some of the basics of UTAU but not really sure where to start.
I know that people talk about the tempo and different kind of RECLists (I hear about Ritsu's a lot) so i wanted to gather as much as possible information before recording the voicebank.
I've heard about setparam too and some other stuff that i can't remember right now. If there's someone with experience and could help/explain me some things and share their experience with VCV recording then i'd really appreciate that. I know that there's CVVC too but i have no idea about those.
 

Kiyoteru

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If you're taking the next step after CV, I honestly recommend going with CVVC. Some important stuff to discuss with either VCV or CVVC is the use of OREMO to record.

OREMO is an application specifically made for recording UTAU banks. You can download the latest version here. (It's b160505)
https://osdn.jp/users/nwp8861/pf/OREMO/wiki/FrontPage

In order to use it, you need to open up a text file that contains the names of the samples you want to record, and set a destination folder for it to automatically save audio to. The text file is your reclist. You press or hold R to record, and once you go to the next thing in the list, it'll save the sample you just recorded.
For recording VCV and CVVC, people often use the automatic recording feature of OREMO, which will play a bit of background music that you can sing along to. It'll help you keep steady pitch and steady rhythm, which will make the UTAU have a better singing tone and have samples of equal length that are easier to OTO. There's various BGM out there. I personally use OneNoteJazz, CVVChinese BGM, and sometimes make my own when I have specific needs.
If you're doing VCV and the reclist is in hiragana, you can use OREMO's generator or moresampler's generator to automatically create a fairly accurate OTO, which saves you a lot of time and effort.

Anyway, a brief comparison between VCV and CVVC.

VCV
- Lots of recordings
- Simple to OTO
- Takes a long time to OTO
- Easily smoother than CV
- Must use converters/presamp/etc
- Includes whole transition, can't adjust length for effect

CVVC
- Less recordings (Less than CV in some reclists)
- Trickier to OTO
- Takes less time to OTO
- Can be smoother than CV, just as much as VCV
- Must use converters/presamp/etc
- Breaks up transition, can be adjusted for effect

I have reclists for both styles, and I'm also willing to go through teaching how to make a voicebank for either style.
[strike](I also have OTO commissions available for both styles, with CVVC being cheaper than VCV)[/strike]
 

Kitcat190

Defoko's Slaves
Defender of Defoko
Oh hi there. If you'd like to jump from a CV (consonant vowel) to a VCV (vowel consonant vowel) it might seem scary and a lot, but it really isn't! There's no set order on what type of bank you have to record, I started out with CV and jumped right to VCV, and I've found VCV to be my personal favorite. You shouldn't limit yourself to the banks, and should honestly try them all at least once!

To break it down, and answer some of the questions(?)

~There are different reclists. "Ritsu's reclist" is the more commonly used one. It's the basic 7 mora(how many strings of samples) reclist and includes the needed sounds. There are other mora reclists starting from 2 and going up from there. So depending on what you feel most comfortable with, start from there! Typically the less mora, the more recordings.

~Tempo, bpm, is used while recording to make sure your samples are all recorded equally and at the same time. Recording with a tempo eliminates any timing issues you may encounter within your bank.

~Setparam is used as a tool to help you oto your bank. However, depending on whether or not your bank is recorded in hiragana or romaji. Moresampler can actually oto your VCV bank for you. (You'll still need to go in and edit to your liking and fix any mistakes) but it really cuts down on the time.


To record a "good vcv bank" you need to choose the reclist you feel most comfortable with. I personally record with a hiragana/katakana 7 mora reclist because I can read the characters. So if you cannot, don't worry because there are romaji reclists available as well. But be warned you may also need a base oto for that exact reclist to get your aliasing back to Japanese, unless you commission someone for an oto.

You will also need Oremo as a recording program because it will be your best bet to getting this all done. You can use different programs to record on, but this will eat up your time. Oremo is fairly simple to use and is available in english. There are also a ton of tutorials you can simply search up on google or even here if you're having problems. With Oremo you can load up your reclist and set the BPM/Tempo so you'll be all set!

So once you've found that you're comfortable with the reclist and programs you've chosen to record with. Find your best area to record in with your microphone to get the best results. If you're having troubles with how to record, simply open up a VCV bank to see how that person has recorded.

Once you've finished recording you can either oto with Moresampler(if your bank was recorded in hiragana/katakana) or with Setparam. (you could also oto by hand in utau or have someone else complete it for you) With any bank, if your oto falls short, so will the voice. So if you're going to be otoing yourself, there are a ton of tutorials to help you.

Otoing isn't hard, just time consuming ; u ;9 So if you're not in a rush you can get everything finished leisurely within a week. If you're fast and or having it commissioned, you can expect it to be done within a day or two.

To give you an example, this is how long everything takes to get done for me:
  • Recording - 30-60 min (one vcv pitch)
  • Otoing - (on a good day) 6 hours (with Moresampler help)- 60 min
  • Setting everything up - About 30 to 60 min
In my experience, the hardest thing is finding the time to record.
If you have any further questions don't hesitate to reply and or ask!
 

Cupcake

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Thread starter
Thank you both for the tips!
One question thou, does more MORA mean that its gonna be smoother or does it just cut the number of record samples?
And i'll do both VCV and CVVC, now am i gonna do it at the same time idk. I've thinking to go trough all 3 base recording styles just to see how its different.
And when i recorded the CV with BGM i always found the BGM a nuisance and it broke my concentration so i guess i'll do it without it (I'll try using BGMs again just to see if i'll have the same issue again)

And @KLAD I'd love to learn from you, whenever you have the time to talk about it PM me. (I wouldn't mind learning about CV either becuase my oto atm is a mess, i don't quite understand how its done[Having serious issues with y samples])

I know that people online say that CVVC is really hard but that's what people always say about everything :P
 
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수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
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Defender of Defoko
CVVC and VCV more or less follow the same principles in terms of configuration (in fact, all 3 styles pretty much follow the same principles - they just have different ways of implementation) in that they'll sound fluid when configured properly. CV and CVVC configuration just comes across as trickier than VCV, but VCV is more tedious if done by hand. As for which is 'better,' it's down to your particular situation...

- How much time do you have to record and how accommodating is your living situation?
If you don't have a ton of time on your hands where you'll be uninterrupted, CVVC is a good option. VCV can take a while to record and it's easy to lose your 'zone' when you have to stop or have to rerecord cause a random noise bled into the audio. VCV is also less forgiving of inconsistencies, so you could wind up needing to use Consonant Velocity to make up for a sample being recording too fast or slow for a particular situation.

- How comfortable are you with otoing?
VCV has tools to make base otos with (oremo, VCV oto generator, moresampler). CVVC doesn't have the option, so you'll more than likely have to do things manually. I would say that if you've gotten the hang of CV, CVVC shouldn't be an issue (even if you haven't, CVVC makes it easier to learn how to set up normal CV banks)

- As for directly answering your questions...
Oremo is generally the 'go to' for recording.

Setparam is a useful tool to oto with and cuts time by half, compared to otoing within UTAU.

There are plenty of reclists, but I would be wary of picking up a reclist that has a ton of mora (and yes, more mora usually means less recording). I find that anything beyond 5 mora tends to run into repetitiveness and a lot of reclists (such as Ritsu's) tend to have sounds that aren't Japanese or rarely serve much usefulness. When you look into finding a reclist, be familiar with Japanese and what's actually worth having in a recording situation.
 
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Kitcat190

Defoko's Slaves
Defender of Defoko
Thank you both for the tips!
One question thou, does more MORA mean that its gonna be smoother or does it just cut the number of record samples?
And i'll do both VCV and CVVC, now am i gonna do it at the same time idk. I've thinking to go trough all 3 base recording styles just to see how its different.
And when i recorded the CV with BGM i always found the BGM a nuisance and it broke my concentration so i guess i'll do it without it (I'll try using BGMs again just to see if i'll have the same issue again)

And @KLAD I'd love to learn from you, whenever you have the time to talk about it PM me. (I wouldn't mind learning about CV either becuase my oto atm is a mess, i don't quite understand how its done[Having serious issues with y samples])

I know that people online say that CVVC is really hard but that's what people always say about everything :P

It depends on how you recorded your sample and how it's oto'd. You could record an 8 mora string but slur everything and have an unforgiving oto which wont do you any justice.

For me, I find the best way to record is with longer samples. I don't use any tempo or bpm when recording, Im a rebel
I've heard more people complaining about VCV being hard yet in all reality it's just time consuming but gets you the results.
You should try a metronome or something softer to keep on tempo if you find you're distracted. If you google metronome, a google flash comes up right there.
 

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