We need to start talking about the future of UTAU's engine development before it's too late

chunter

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Communities go away because its members lose interest, not because the material gets old. I have a feeling many people reading this will still play with this stuff well into your 50s and 60s if you have the right equipment and such. Since I'm wondering just how burdensome it may be to maintain a 10-15 year old computer just to run some of the stuff I need, I welcome any new software somebody can come up with. It can be a brand new thing that just happens to read UST and OTO and whatever- I'll give it a try and if it works with my music, I'll keep using it.
 

Chianachini

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
You know I think a lot of us, like myself, are students and recent graduates that may be self-taught or may have taken programming/whatever classes that may know how to make a basic project, would love to contribute to UTAU development the best we can, but just don't have the experience to be on a true development team.

If we were to start this project, I hope it could be done in a way so that noobs such as myself can actually observe the development process and learn--so that we can perhaps assist later on in the development of plugins, samplers, config, and such.

Excuse me if that sounds odd or ambitious. I may have just had a bad teacher, but I feel as if programming is just absorbed by 'doing it' like osmosis rather than taught, and it's so hard to go about it alone as an amateur.
 

Lystrialle

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As soon as I get home I'm gonna make a Google form so I can coordinate everyone who has an interest in contributing to the core team of the project (of course, since the idea is to be open-source, hopefully anyone will be able to jump in if they feel like it).
We'll see if we have enough people to carry a serious project as well.
 

Lystrialle

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All right, I've made the Google form. Please fill it out if you're interested in participating in the project.
Obviously since this will be an open project anyone will be free to contribute at any time, so please be honest when answering the questions. This is to see how much of a viable option this project is, and so we can coordinate a group.
 

notsoul_elli

Teto's Territory
Defender of Defoko
So like. Probably off topicish

Idk if Niaoniao is open source, but, I feel like its worth mentioning anyway because it opens new opportunities for english voicebanks.

Thats the only thing i can think off.
 
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HixaiU

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
If its any help, I have a build of an engine I was creating its a little different to UTAU, more or less closer top a vocaloid sounding result. It was very early development but I can see if I still have it. If I do you can use that as your shell and I will walk everyone through it. My goal was to make the most realistic voice.
 
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Buck

Ruko's Ruffians
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Whatever features you intend to add to this awesomeness, be sure to prioritize them, at least somewhat. Nothing is more annoying in a software (at least to me, idk about you) is when the developer leaves a bunch of needed features neglected, instead throwing in a bunch of colorful tweaks and dumb trinkets that are cool, but aren't that big a deal in the face of the things that need to get done(cough lmms)

Good luck with this.
 
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WendytheCreeper

(>☉ ͡ヮ☉<)
Defender of Defoko
Hey, what would you suggest to help out with getting the word out about this project? Do you have any tweets or posts anywhere that can be shared anywhere?

I feel like I don't really have the skills required to contribute to this project, aside from, idk, making demos and stuff (UNLESS YOU WANT THAT THEN PLEASE~~~) and I feel like I might get lost in a wave of people who want to join but don't have any coding experience. (This is a very important cause to me)

Also, how can someone not on the dev team be updated on progress? Can there be a dev blog? Dev Youtube? Dev social media?
 
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sailor _ravioli

Ritsu's Renegades
Defender of Defoko
Hey, what would you suggest to help out with getting the word out about this project? Do you have any tweets or posts anywhere that can be shared anywhere?

I feel like I don't really have the skills required to contribute to this project, aside from, idk, making demos and stuff (UNLESS YOU WANT THAT THEN PLEASE~~~) and I feel like I might get lost in a wave of people who want to join but don't have any coding experience. (This is a very important cause to me)

Also, how can someone not on the dev team be updated on progress? Can there be a dev blog? Dev Youtube? Dev social media?
i dont feel the project is organized enough to start a dev blog/yt/social media account
i dont have any tweets but i feel twitter would be pretty effective if you got someone with enough publicity to talk about it tho
 

bio

VocalSynth Enthusiast
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
If its any help, I have a build of an engine I was creating its a little different to UTAU, more or less closer top a vocaloid sounding result. It was very early development but I can see if I still have it. If I do you can use that as your shell and I will walk everyone through it. My goal was to make the most realistic voice.
I like this idea
+
I can help out with bug testing and such.
(i filled out the form)
 
Last edited:

HixaiU

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
For people going into programming. Heres an example of building a sine wave as a start

Code:
#include <cmath>
#include <stdint.h>
#define twoPI 6.28318530717958 // 2*pi = 360˚ = one full cycle
// Using standard typedefs for portability, you can change them to normal data types if you like
// @param dur: I was indecisive about whether the duration
// should be 32 or 16 bits aka 130 years or 18 hours, but then
// again you never know what sound installations people come up with
int16_t* gen(float freq, uint32_t dur, float vol=1.0);
int main(int argc, const char * argv[])
{
    int16_t* buff = gen(440,3);
     
    /* Do something with it */
     
    delete [] buff;
}
int16_t* gen(float freq, uint32_t dur, float vol)
{
    uint32_t samplerate = 44100;    // samples per second
     
    // initial phase, you could offset it, but then again you could not
    double phase = 0;
     
    // The phase increment is the phase value the phasor increases by
    // per sample.
    double phaseincr = twoPI/samplerate * freq;
     
    // The amount of samples the buffer must hold
    uint32_t total_samples = samplerate * dur;
     
    int16_t *buffer = new int16_t [total_samples]; // grab a new array with size for the entire buffer
     
    for (int i = 0; i < total_samples; i++) // fill the buffer
    {
        // the factor 32767 comes from the fact that .wav files store samples
        // as 16 bit signed integers, before this the values are normalized
        // between -1 and + 1 (the sine values). If you want to do something
        // else with these values before storing them somewhere I recommend leaving        // the factor away.
        buffer[i] = 32767*(sin(phase) * vol);
        phase += phaseincr;
         
        // when the phasor hits 2Pi/360˚/full circle we have to reset the phase
        if (phase >= twoPI) phase -= twoPI;
    }
     
    return buffer;
}
 

na4a4a

Outwardly Opinionated and Harshly Critical
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
For people going into programming. Heres an example of building a sine wave as a start

Code:
#include <cmath>
#include <stdint.h>
#define twoPI 6.28318530717958 // 2*pi = 360˚ = one full cycle
// Using standard typedefs for portability, you can change them to normal data types if you like
// @param dur: I was indecisive about whether the duration
// should be 32 or 16 bits aka 130 years or 18 hours, but then
// again you never know what sound installations people come up with
int16_t* gen(float freq, uint32_t dur, float vol=1.0);
int main(int argc, const char * argv[])
{
    int16_t* buff = gen(440,3);
    
    /* Do something with it */
    
    delete [] buff;
}
int16_t* gen(float freq, uint32_t dur, float vol)
{
    uint32_t samplerate = 44100;    // samples per second
    
    // initial phase, you could offset it, but then again you could not
    double phase = 0;
    
    // The phase increment is the phase value the phasor increases by
    // per sample.
    double phaseincr = twoPI/samplerate * freq;
    
    // The amount of samples the buffer must hold
    uint32_t total_samples = samplerate * dur;
    
    int16_t *buffer = new int16_t [total_samples]; // grab a new array with size for the entire buffer
    
    for (int i = 0; i < total_samples; i++) // fill the buffer
    {
        // the factor 32767 comes from the fact that .wav files store samples
        // as 16 bit signed integers, before this the values are normalized
        // between -1 and + 1 (the sine values). If you want to do something
        // else with these values before storing them somewhere I recommend leaving        // the factor away.
        buffer[i] = 32767*(sin(phase) * vol);
        phase += phaseincr;
        
        // when the phasor hits 2Pi/360˚/full circle we have to reset the phase
        if (phase >= twoPI) phase -= twoPI;
    }
    
    return buffer;
}

Good job at stealing the code and not crediting the source.

http://thecodeinn.blogspot.com/2014/02/developing-digital-synthesizer-in-c_2.html?m=1
 

Tomato Hentai

dont call me a veggie
Defender of Defoko
IMO, instead of making open-source clones of UTAU, people should try to make their own vocal synthesis software.

Oh yeah, also, to the people that are making UTAU clones or their own vocalsynth software, please please please don't use something like C# that's locked to one operating system. Use something like C, C++, Objective-C or even Lua. Anything that will let people use it on as many OSes as is possible.
 

HixaiU

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Honestly you all should be working towards a new engine. Full stop. We are on limited time when it comes to UTAU most likely the next windows SP pack will kill it. I know El capitian hates it and crashes more then Yosemite. I hate to put fear into people over this precious program and I hate to be a hard ass but start looking for alternatives now you probably will have a year of it working until windows gives out then what are you going to use? Im not trying to be aggressive but someone has to be blunt about it.

Heres my work in progress so far.
012691169ac1ce7ad675f24feb89cdad.png

By no means am I qualified to program but I am trying my hardest to do what I can between work and my business. Do not count on me finishing this as I am not mathematical enough for coding full programs. I just know how to work with synth engines because Ive been studying them and did my thesis on them.
 
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수연 <Suyeon>

Your friendly neighborhood koreaboo trash
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Communities go away because its members lose interest, not because the material gets old. I have a feeling many people reading this will still play with this stuff well into your 50s and 60s if you have the right equipment and such. Since I'm wondering just how burdensome it may be to maintain a 10-15 year old computer just to run some of the stuff I need, I welcome any new software somebody can come up with. It can be a brand new thing that just happens to read UST and OTO and whatever- I'll give it a try and if it works with my music, I'll keep using it.

Thing is though, people will be forced to move on if they can't use the software and can't use the OS that the software works on. Old Windows OSes (XP, 7, 8.x) aren't entirely safe to use unless you keep them sandboxed within a VM cause they won't be updated and legal copies aren't capable of using their license keys (unless you get an illegal ISO and use a KMS server). Maybe those with extra machines that they never keep online will be able to risk keeping old software and OS for the sake of using it, but it's a question of whether everyone can. If an entirely new software can be developed for Mac, Windows going forward, and popular linux distros (Ubuntu, Mint, etc. cause let's face it, it will be impossible to cater to every distro that exists), then we should look towards that once UTAU runs it's last course. It may not happen with the next Windows 10 build, but it will definitely happen as legacy software becomes more and more depreciated.
 

na4a4a

Outwardly Opinionated and Harshly Critical
Supporter
Defender of Defoko
Engine-wise Utau isn't lacking. The big thing is literally the interface.
The issue is that engines are limited by Utau's command line format.
Any interface that is made could still support the current utau engines or even, with some help from a developer, support original features (such as smoothly transitioning parameters or something).
If you pick the correct code-base then the interface will essentially inherit it's compatibility with other operating systems.
 

Chianachini

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
Oh yeah, also, to the people that are making UTAU clones or their own vocalsynth software, please please please don't use something like C# that's locked to one operating system. Use something like C, C++, Objective-C or even Lua. Anything that will let people use it on as many OSes as is possible.

There's an open source program called mono that lets users run .NET across multiple platforms, looks like it even includes mobile. You'd have to edit the GUI for each OS. I'm a Windows user with Visual Studio so I've never tried it.

But then, if most of the project developers are proficient in another language like C++ or C, I would just go with that.
 

baye

Ruko's Ruffians
Defender of Defoko
As someone who's been working with the UTAU program for over 5 years, I was interested to see this topic. I've since had a lot of trouble finding the time and inspiration to work on UTAU, but when I do, it's creating reclists, new recording methods, trying out new software. If we as a community are able to find new ways to reinvent parts of the software, it will be a long time until UTAU is obsolete.

Personally, I'm trying to work with TTS engines and endangered languages since I have a linguistics background.
 
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JellyB

Teto's Territory
I never got UTAU because I had to change the locate to Japan. I have some games and files that will mite get messed up and/or my mom will kill me if I do:holy:. I would love to see this be a thing in the UTAU fandom or have a fandom of it's own. I can help out but I'm not a programer. I can do the default vb if I get a better mic or art for some vbs maybe. MAYBE!
 
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